VU+ Ultimo - Audio Quality

Dani

Dani

Vu+ Newbie
I do not want this to sound like a criticism, more an observation.
But i have noticed the Vu+ Ultimos audio quality is not as good as my previous DM800HD

Especially noticed on Music Video Channels and when playing MP3's.
Sound via the Vu+ Ultimo is tinie, hollow and without musical depth.

All my boxes have been tested using the same audio equipment, HDMI to Yamaha RX-V2700, same speakers used.

Are there any settings that can be adjusted?
Although i am one that likes everything set flat,standard... but by comparison to previous DM800 and DM7000 the Vu+ Ultimo is very lacking in audio quality. Its also very noticeably rich in treble...
In fact, the more i notice it, the worse it sounds :(

Have other uses found similar findings?
Is it a driver thing?
 
As an audiophile I can give you some advice: if you want a good audio quality from a decoder take the digital audio out (optical unfortunately), use an external DA converter (a good one) and then go through a good stereo amplifier. The internal DA converter is a cheap, CHEAP one, you can't ask too much from it.

A VU+ Ultimo through a Reymio DA, Ensemble Ampli and looudspeakers sounds pretty damn good, deep and well balanced, believe me. And even leaving the DA converter out, feeding the Ultimo RCA output straight into the amplifier input gives you pretty good results. Not remotely as good as a CD player, of course, but then you only pay 400 bucks for a Ultimo decoder, half the price of a couple of good interconnect cables.

Then, at the end of it, there are your ears: if you don't like what you hear, that's it, it's your taste. It took me more than 30 years of testing to find out what I really like: now I like my setup and I have learned a few things:

1) the only reference sound is that of an acoustic instrument (piano, violin, trumpet) live (go to a classic music concert around the 5th - 10th row, close to center).

2) the only accurate volume for listening to music is that which gives you the same sound pressure as in a concert, not more, not less

3) All the rest around you must be silence (this is the most important part)

4) Prefer an amplifier/loudspeakers setup that sounds gorgeous at a low volume: when the volume goes up they have to fight against the reflecting waves from your room's walls and feedback vibrations from everything else. Plus, you will have a lot of distorsion. Not nice.

5) As for rock music, it depends on what you are actually looking for: want a good punch in the guts? Buy power. Need the small nuances? Buy quality. It depends on what you like, you are boss.

6) When you want to buy a new component, listen to it in your room, with your aother components, wioth your favorite music: if you hear something new that moves you to tears, buy it; otherways, let it be and spare your money.

7) Cables and AC power do have a definite influence on sound: I can tell you the difference if you change the wall socket my ampli is connected to.

8) If you get to the point in which listening to your stereo set is one of the most rewarding moments of your day, then you know what I mean.

Omg.... what a long post. Hope I didn't bore you all.

DD
 
Awesome post, thank you.

$400 bucks for a Vu+ Ultimno... I WISH!!!!
more like $535

Price aside, my point still stands... its sounds better with a $100 DM7000 or $185 DM800HD... Yes, i totally agree on the benefits of a quality DaC, but i dont think the Dreams come with one????.... so whats the storey with the Vu+???

I will try the Optical cable, great advice ;) But the Yamaha already has the BurBrown DAC... so whether HDMI or Optical, whats the diff? its all ones and zeros!! until it hits the Yamaha's DAC...
 
I can not agree with your opinion.
because I've had or have most of the above boxes
DM7000 /800/8000/500 HD series
I do not know where and why you got these results
but with my audio device VUultimo has certainly the same if not better audio.
 
Dani said:
Awesome post, thank you.
Click to expand...

I'm happy you're interested: my insane passion for hi end audio is usually received with different attitudes ...

Anyway, the first thing to know about digital audio is that while it makes it easier getting your signal from A to B, advertisings notwithstanding, it makes it harder to get true hi end results.

The operation of converting a bitstream into an analog electric signal is soooo delicate and so prone to interferences that the same setup will sound different depending on a number of parameters; there is one word that you should lookup on the web: jitter, the nemesis of any DA converter.

Then again, do not trust those who say that a bistream is "just a bunch of 1's and 0's": carrying the 1's and 0's from here to there is easy, and that's what our "el cheapo" computers do all day (and night) long. Placing those 1's and 0's at the right moment in time is quite another thing, producing the exact waveform with the right timing is something else. That's why a good DA converter like the Reymio I mentioned is priced around 9000€ (yes three zeroes) and a good digital cable will sound much better (and cost a lot more, maybe about 1.000€) than a poor digital cable: both carry 1's and 0's, but my wife from the kitchen can tell that I swapped the cables (the kitchen test is my final test for buying new equipment: it states that "any new piece of equipment is worth buying if the audio quality improvement is easily spotted and adequately described by the wife in the kitchen")
Finding the money is, of course, another story. That's why it can take 35 years to finally find your peace. At least for the moment :)
 
Matrix10 said:
I do not know where and why you got these results
Click to expand...

With my ears :)

I have lived with same equipment for years now, the only thing that changes are source devices, so i think i have fair platform to compare one from the other.
I do not own an oscilloscope or any type of recording, logging equipment... Its just seat of the pants listening in the same position, with the same speakers, same amp, cable and connections.
I have since checked my system with some reference material and everything works as it should, so its not an equipment failure.

My finding are just that.... findings. I will try with the optical and see if it is somehow different.
Like i said, its not a criticism... Its just what i've noticed.
 
Hm,

I also have all the same
and I can switch directly from one receiver to another
There's I not noticing any ( not much,very difficult) difference on my installation.
 
DonaldDuck said:
I'm happy you're interested: my insane passion for hi end audio is usually received with different attitudes ...

Anyway, the first thing to know about digital audio is that while it makes it easier getting your signal from A to B, advertisings notwithstanding, it makes it harder to get true hi end results.

The operation of converting a bitstream into an analog electric signal is soooo delicate and so prone to interferences that the same setup will sound different depending on a number of parameters; there is one word that you should lookup on the web: jitter, the nemesis of any DA converter.

Then again, do not trust those who say that a bistream is "just a bunch of 1's and 0's": carrying the 1's and 0's from here to there is easy, and that's what our "el cheapo" computers do all day (and night) long. Placing those 1's and 0's at the right moment in time is quite another thing, producing the exact waveform with the right timing is something else. That's why a good DA converter like the Reymio I mentioned is priced around 9000€ (yes three zeroes) and a good digital cable will sound much better (and cost a lot more, maybe about 1.000€) than a poor digital cable: both carry 1's and 0's, but my wife from the kitchen can tell that I swapped the cables (the kitchen test is my final test for buying new equipment: it states that "any new piece of equipment is worth buying if the audio quality improvement is easily spotted and adequately described by the wife in the kitchen")
Finding the money is, of course, another story. That's why it can take 35 years to finally find your peace. At least for the moment :)
Click to expand...


Thanks again DD, yes i'm very familiar with DACs and pre amp stages and their power supplies and the immense difference it makes.
I'd like to think in my situation, that all of the above is static, as its only the source devices that change.

DM7000, DM800, WDTV, PS3, Vu+, Iphone (via dock to DAC in Amp) .....

With all i notice a difference in playing the same digital material, some better, some worse....
All are connected either via HDMI (which reminds me, perhaps i should not use the default Vu+ HDMI lead, as i think that is the only difference in set up) or Optical.

I will do some more trails with what i am playing and see if i can pin point it.
 
About HDMI cables: at the moment they do not belong in a hi end setup: too many wires in one cable. Some people spend as much as 60 or 80 € for an HDMI cable, I am quite happy with some Panasonic 15€ ones, but then again my audio signal goes through a toslink cable (which will be changed soon enough: it is too long and old).
I was unable to notice any improvement with better HDMI cables, but of course my ears are much much better (and better trained) than my eyes.

Let me know about your tests
 
Ok... played some FLAC 192/24 files from the ultimo.... they sounded fantastic.
Still with HDMI and Toslink connected.
I will check again with Sat Music Channel....
 
Yes, funny you should ask, i had some WAV files too, also sounded amazing.
I might have to stand corrected from my initial post... perhaps it was the material being played via Sat that was at fault.
 
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